Fukushima quake

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There was a quake near the coastline of Fukushima today. USGS had it as a 5,9. GFZ as a Mag. 6 quake. http://geofon.gfz-potsdam.de/eqinfo/event.php?id=gfz2013jqtk

When seeing that this morning it reminded of the times when i watched the news about Fukushima on TV. This happened in the direct aftermath of the devastating Tōhoku quake and Tsunami which struck Japan on March 11, 2011. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tōhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami) I am certain many here remember the terrible videos and images.
I asked on VC if such a quake as today would have harmed the nuclear powerplants near the coastline if the incidents 2 years ago had not already happened and Carl ensured me, the plants were built to withstand such an earthquake unharmed. What was the problem was, that the Tsunami was more than twice as high as the Fukushima plants could handle.
pict33
I remembered hearing of problems with a second atomic power plant back then, Fukushima II also called Fukushima Daini. Then there was a message in the news on local tv, that the situation was dealt with and nothing happened suggesting there was no further threat of a possible melt down or contaminated water escaping.

I had forgoten about the second power plant story till today. What happened in Fukushima I was too severe to be covered up and is now a topic in the media rather often. I just recently watched a documentation about a study on mutated butterflies in the region around Fukushima.
But what about Fukushima Daini? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_II_Nuclear_Power_Plant

I read it had a cold shutdown.  So i asked you people here on VC

The Wikipedia ariticle says, that Tepco wanted to release the remaining 7000 tons of seawater back into the sea in July 2011 since the reservoirs holding it back started corroding but did not get permission to do so. Now it is more than 2 years later… what happened to the water till 2011?

What I heard, but don’t know the sources anymore: They have to keep water running over the reactors to cool them down. The trouble is the cooling water becomes radioactive due to close contact with the reactor. Sometimes they have to change the water because it becomes that much radioactive the pipes/watertanks start to corrode. I believe in April this year they had a leakage and a lot of radioactive water leaked in the ground and pacific sea. I believe they have huge storrage problems for the water. They still want to dump loads of water in the oceans.

This is a press release from 14 may 2013:http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/tepco-seeks-permission-to-dump-groundwater-from-fukushima-plant-into-ocean?utm_campaign=jt_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=jt_newsletter_2013-05-14_AM

Without checking the specifics regarding the water.

But, the powerplants are well able to take a 6M earthquake, the japanese ones are also actually secondarilly strengthened against earthquakes above any other powerplants on earth.
Problem was that they where not built for the 9.4M earthquake that hit Fukushima. Nothing in the end is built to take that. Problem is that the japanese plants should all have been on the other coastline for safety reasons.
In the end a nuclear powerplant should not be built in an area like that where you have had numerous historical ultralarge earthquakes. And… One should not build them at all since they do time and again release crap. Even when there is no accident the mining is poisonous enough. Blekh!

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Does anyone have more informations on Fukushima Daini and the contaminated water? Was it released into the ocean? Did it just leak out?

Nothing much is going on with volcanoes as far as i could grab today, so in agreement with Carl, i thought to make a small post of my worries. After all, even though Japan is really far away from Europe. In case the radioactive water is in the Pacific Ocean it will have an effect. Not only the local fishermen might be affected. Fish is shipped and traded all over the world. And who knows which other species might be harmed , or where the ocean currents will carry the radioactive water.

Spica

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59 thoughts on “Fukushima quake

  1. My niece lives near there in Yokohama. She has now bought a house in London. We’ll be glad when she and her family are back here. she’s lived in Japan for 16 years.

  2. Spica: welcome back to our discussion forum. Herzliche Grüsse aus Rio! 🙂
    No doubt that there’s much more about Fukushima buried under the mud of oblivion than we might know of. Maybe the earthquake was not enough to cause direct hazard, but it doesn’t mean that the potential for catastrophic consequences are not ruled out and the quake serves as a good reminder of things unknown that are not willingly to be dug out from the rubble. Great insight!

  3. Here are simulations/animations of atmospheric and oceanic dispersion of radionucleotides performed at the request of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). The data is based on the measurement by TEPCO of disolved cesium 137 in front of the plant.
    http://sirocco.omp.obs-mip.fr/outils/Symphonie/Produits/Japan/SymphoniePreviJapan.htm
    While atmospheric emission seized after 10 days or so, water emission continued for months. This is only for 2011.

    • Disturbing topic, radioactivity. As a teenager I had aweful nightmares…cold war victim 😦
      The only thing I like about the Fukushima disaster is that our government decided quickly to phase out nuclear energy.

  4. Actually the belgian nuclear plants have been in the news here this week. Since last summer the reactors of Tihange 2 and Doel 3 were shut down becose they found micro-cracks (or something). This week the FANC, the nuclear watchdog, put the light on green to reactivate them. (This winter we were actually very,very close to power outage and had to rely on electricity from our neighbouring countries (France), so they want to reactivate them as soon as possible)

    This was today in a big newspaper:
    Jan Bens, the head of the nuclear watchdog FANC, claims that a nuclear disaster in Belgium is impossible. “The nuclear sector is safe and secure.” And there is more. Speaking in the daily De Morgen, he says that wind turbines are potentially more a bigger danger for public health than nuclear reactors.

    “Yes, wind turbines involve risks”, argues Jan Bens. “They are stuffing the port of Antwerp with wind turbines, next to our chemical industry. If an accident would occur there, let’s say a wing that breaks, then this is the guillotine. If the piece hits a chlorine pipe, then this would have a bigger impact than something that could go wrong in (the nuclear plant of) Doel.” This allows Mr Bens to draw the conclusion: “Wind turbines are more dangerous than nuclear power plants.”

    A remarkable quote, as the safety of wind turbines is hardly being questioned. Mr Bens’ predecessor at the FANC, Willy De Roovere, had a completely different opinion. He said in his farewell speech that the risks posed by nuclear energy can no longer be justified towards society.

    http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/Health%2Band%2BEnvironment/130518_Jan_Bens_FANC_English

    (For those who aren’t familiar with the port of Antwerp, It’s the second biggest port of Europe after Rotterdam. It industrial area is as big as Houston and the (petro)chemical industry cluster is the second biggest in the world after Houston)

    This is what can happen if wind turbines go out of control:

      • It’s obvious that it is very difficult to secure things against manic windturbines. Or to have an actual plan of where to place them. (Anyone who has been in Belgium knows that town and country planning is not our strong point)

        • Nah.. not buying it. You have to be a genius to figure out how to route new service lines and manage the chaos so that traffic can occasionally move. I’d say that there is quite a bit of rather skillful planning going on.

        • Sa’ke, trust me on this one… I have seen far worse 🙂
          There are a couple of other things I scratch my furry face about Belgium, but your sense of planning things is not one of them.
          And I positively love the beer, and the rabbit at Le Grand Café is kick ass 🙂

  5. It is only a few data points, but that upward vertical trend on some the GPS stations nr Hekla is interesting. 🙂

    DRAGON’S: Not sure if this is possible but I’ve been thinking it would be great if in the Crow’s Nest under each topic we could have a link to a post or thread where we can store all the work people create. For example, we could have an “Hekla GPS” thread and anytime someone creates a graphic showing the GPS changes, they could post it in there as well as the current thread. We could do the same for the 3D earthquake maps, etc. That way if you ever want to know what’s up with Bob’s GPS the info would be easy to find and it’s a great way of storing everyone’s great work.

    Not sure what everyone else thinks?

      • I’ll drink to that toast, JD and coke or an double Jay, Down the local I say!! :0

        “In 2008 The Local, an Irish pub in Minneapolis, sold 671 cases of Jameson (22 bottles a day.)[3] making it the largest server of Jameson’s in the world, a title it has maintained for four consecutive years”

      • And… since there was a stage of my life consumed with terrorizing squirrels and getting drunk, some of the better country music that I listened too. I’m not really a fan of country music… other than Wayon Jennings.

        The standard shtick is that people complain that their wives don’t understand them. When it comes to music, this fits my wife. I listen to either White Zombie something equally beat driven (or more so) while driving, and as a general listening preference, but I can be perfectly happy listening to Waymore’s Blues (by Walon Jennings). And… I have to admit I did listen to some of the “No Hat” guys, like Marty Stuart. With that said, I now switch to some Hair of the Dog.

        And for the purists…. Funk #49

        Not a purist? No problem. Be a simple man. Or not.

            • I have had nightmares about that picture… I guess I have a too vivid imagination so I see myself somehow caught in that predicament.
              I had a friend who tripped while out fishing. He sat down on the anchor. With an 8kg anchor posteriously attached he somehow got the motor running and drow down river to the hospital and walked 500 meters to the entrance. Thanks to the quick release on the anchor chain he did not have to drag the boat with his ass to the hospital.

              Since then I am rather dubious around anchors…

  6. And I have another question about referencing and copyright when using graphics from sources on the internet. If the chart/table/graphic/photographs is freely available online am I ok to copy it straight from the site so long as I reference where it came from and who created it? Do I need to seek permission (which I assume is always best) or is it sufficient just to let them know the content has been used?

    Also, there’s an article which is paywalled but the abstract including graphics is freely available – unfortunately, they are not of the type I can reproduce myself. Because I can view the images freely, is it ok to copy them, attributing them to the creator, or do I have to pay for the rights?

    Thanks in advance 🙂

    • Problem is that the rules vary from country to country.
      That is one of the reasons that we perhaps will move the site to a server that we control in a country with a fitting relaxed legal system. We are a non-profit community and as such I think we should have the right to use material.
      I would prefer to have the server in Sweden since I know the swedish legal system very well, and it would fit our normal usage.
      According to swedish law it would be okay to use any material as long as it is referenced, paywall or not (graphics). And we can quote up to 13 percent of the material of a paper. We could also use any freely available photographic material that is not properly trademarked or properly copyrighted. Of course it would have to be copyrighted in sweden to be counted as properly copyrighted… 😉

      Pretty much we are allready operating like this, but we are not legaly protected like this currently. But on the other hand I have a hard time seeing anyone taking legal action against a non-profit popular science community.

      This is my private opinion, and we have not finnished the Dragon-discussions on the subject. There are other issues also behind us looking into a move. Those are mainly technical since we wish to give everyone the best possible experience in here. We also have concerns about the hosted WordPress environment in case of a large eruption occuring.

      /Carl

      • Also… the abstract are generally okay to use as long as they are cited properly.

        Abstracts serve the purpose of drawing attention to the paper. If it’s significant enough, Elsiver can make money selling access to it.

    • Depends on the licence. You need to check with the copyright owner. Take extra care if the article is pay-walled.

          • Yes, I do know them.
            But that is not the applicable part. The part thay they wrote about (and with quite a few erroneous parts) was in regards of artistical representations, ie. Paintings, musical works, etc.

          • As far as I know… about the only time we ran into conflict was with the portly one. Since the stuff he was ticked off about was on Youtube, I complied and left him holding the bag as to why the video was taken down. The other option was to have Youtube kill my account. They are not what one could call, “user friendly.” Some fat arsed bureaucrat starts making noises, who do you think they are gonna side with?

            • And that would be yet another reason to move house…
              Then we could have our own video gadget running those videos if we wish.

    • Summer… “bah.” Just did a stint if fighting equipment and buggy configuration scripts/incomplete configurations in a stuffy, poorly air-conditioned building. You can keep it.

      As for

      And… One should not build them at all since they do time and again release crap. Even when there is no accident the mining is poisonous enough.

      What? The 2011 Tohoku earthquake was a full on Black Swan. You wish to use this to further the anti human mantra of no nukes? This pickle that exists with Fukishima is in part due to the no nuke attitude. It has effectively halted most research into nuclear science since every new thing that had been worked out is vehemently protested. Radiation is bad… yeah, I can agree with that, are you willing to ban C-14? There is enough C-14 in our bodies that approximately ten thousand atoms of C-14 that are used in various DNA molecules decay and become Nitrogen. Every single day. By definition, any change to a DNA molecules structure is a mutation. USUALLY, the body can account for this errant new molecule, isolate it, and eliminate the molecule if it is in fact malfunctioning. And that is just from the natural biospheric concentration of C-14… generated from cosmic rays impinging on the Earth.

      Yeah, being anti nuke is sexy. But how about anti aluminumism, (new word, just made it up)? Aluminum exposure can cause dementia to humans. You know, something akin to Alzheimers. I don’t see any crusades to stop using it. Sure, there was a mini-crusade to stop using it in the wiring of houses… but that was because you could get a bi-metallic corrosion effect where it tied into copper lines. Those junctions could act as a resistance and start to give off a lot of heat… (bad thing to happen in the wall of your house.) but, outside of that, no one gives a shit. And if you take issue with Aluminum Sulfate being used as an adjunct in vaccines, you are labled a loon, or treated as a gadfly. (Adjuncts are thing put in vaccines with the intention of pissing off your immune system. That way it will encode to stop whatever viral signature that accompanies the Adjunct… which, in vaccine form, may not be recognized as a thread.)

      The costs of electrical power keep going up. Some really expensive bone headed ideas have been put forth and acted on as solutions to the problem… such as putting wind farms in areas that usually have little wind during the seasons that you need the electricity the most. Or putting them in places that periodically get monster winds in tropical storms and hurricanes. Not to mention they have to be constantly maintained… or they quit working or self de-construct.

      Altamont Pass, in California (37.704940°N -121.645253°W) is home to literally hundreds of these Condor chippers. Many were built specifically to get a government subsidy. I’m a maintenance person… it’s what I do. I do not work on wind turbines, but I can tell you that I wouldn’t be crawling up those damn things for free. As soon as the company operating them no longer makes money (usually from the subsidy) operating them, they abandon them. At least in Altamont Pass, they are sort of out of the way. Could you imagine a wind farm such as this placed at sea? As soon as the hazard lites go out or fail, they become a permanent hazard to navigation.

      Here’s another oddity… strange thing, or issue. Wind Farms can not go to full power at the flick of a switch. Usually they only put out a fraction of what their rated capacity is. In order to deal with the fluctuations of demand (by the end user… you and I) there have to be spinning reserves that can take the load until the wind picks up. Know what spinning reserve is? Typically a normal power plant that is up and running (and synced) that is capable of handling the load. If you start throwing out of phase power sources on your grid… you will soon have major issues as pieces of various transformers leap off of the poles in an angry spit of fire and sparks.

      Peaking Reservoirs. I’m not a fan of Bird and Bat chippers, but peaking reservoirs are probably the only half arsed sane way to deal with storing the power for later use. They are used (and were invented for) taking electrical power during low demand periods (and when it’s cheaper) to pump water up to a reservoir on top of a mountain, or someplace really high. During high demand times, they use hydrogenerators to fill the power demand. You can even see one that hasn’t been finished yet on El Hierro ( 27.795022° – 17.923353°). This is one reason that I think that Bob was down played so much. I imagine that it sort of scared the shit out of investors in the project… or people who would loose their investors if the volcanic features were put back into service as scoria cones. That one cone would be spectacular if it happened after the reservoir were filled. Oh yeah… filling. You can’t just leave em on automatic. They did that at Taum Sauk reservoir (Proffit Mountain) and overfilled it. After the damn breached and dropped around four million cubic meters of water down a river. Due to the convenient placement of the lower reservoir, the 20 foot high wall of water did not make it to two nearby towns and no one was killed. They can be quite dangerous.


      Side Note on Fukashima… when the quake occurred, do you know that the reactors automatically scrammed? (auto shutdown). Part of the problem were that the system operators saw the rapid decline in pressures and feared damaging the core. So they over rode some of the emergency circuits.

      Yeah, I can point fingers too. But in this case, it would not have stopped the issues at Fukashima. Loss of the diesel generators to the tsunami, which wiped out back up power for circulating coolant on the rods did that.

      How about that? A nuclear power plant casualty caused by diesel generators.

      • I think uranium/plutonium nuclear reactors are to dangerous to keep them. Most plants are built for only 30year and are running (much) longer. Also what will you do with the nuclear waste? I haven’t heard a proper solution for this but uranium stays radio-active for 100 000 years. Thorium plants are maybe a good solution but I don’t know much about them. Thorium stays radio-active for ‘only’ 500 years and their nearly no risk for a melt-down like in Fukushima.
        And uranium mines are very, very damaging for the environment.

      • Black Swan?
        It is not even a black swan earthquake whise. Japan has had several above 9 earthquakes in historical times. And it does not even need to be earthquake related. Nuclear reactors have the inherent abillity to go black swan on their own since the systems contain tens of thousands of interconnected systems. For one of them to fail is a true black swan, for anyone of (if counted all together, or as an interconnected system) them failing catastrophically sooner or later is pretty much a dead certainty.
        I know that none of the failures have happened due to one singular thing happening. Singular things failing is rather easy to build out of the equation, it is the several things issue that is the problem.
        Fukushima, Three mile Island, Sellafield, Tjernobyl… the list actually is rather longer…

        Yeah, I am a against nuclear reactors due to knowing to much about them, I do not care about the sexy or not. But I also recognise that for some places they might be the only alternative for the time being. Even though I do not like them.
        What drives me piss mad is that we have them who is the last country on the planet to need them.
        We do not need the energy they give (we sell it at a loss to other countries). We pulled the plug on our hydrogen bomb project in ’93 and dismantled the bombs we had built(storing 12 metric tonnes of weapon grade fishionable material at the beach in Sellafield.

        Solving the energy issue is not easy, trust me I know this better than most. There are two ways to solve it, a few huge clean power production units, or a multitude of small ones. Bot ways have their problems.
        Once I was told that it is impossible to solve the problem large scale. It took me an hour and a napkin whilst dumping on the loo to solve it. A perfect clean way of producing enough energy for Africa, India, Arabic states, Europe and Russia. East Asia and the Americas would have to be solved in another way.
        The problems are political and the financing, it would be insanely expensive. Up untill you actually start producing. The cost per kilowatt would be lower then the cheapest known hydropower plant. And let us just say that nobody trust one of the countries that would have to be involved.

  7. Hmmm, can’t seem to reply to comments … Thanks Carl and KarenZ for you comments, I’ll defer to the Dragon’s judgment when I finally get round to submitting the post – night all 🙂

    • You got java turned on? The reply link doesn’t show up for me unless I ‘mouseover’ where it sits at. ‘mouseover’ is a Javascript language function. Move your mouse over the lower right hand corner of the comment and see if it shows up.

  8. Last night, I had the opportunity to experience a small town.

    About 30 minutes before we stopped for the evening, a patrol car was headed north like a bat out of hell. We locked up and headed for the next town (my reason was that the reviews for the rooms in this town all mentioned bugs). I stopped at a gas station in time to see a FD tanker truck running balls to the wall… who was then followed by an ambulance from a side road…. also running lights and sirens.

    I pondered that for a moment.

    Most fire apparatus around here have about a few thousand gallons of water, which is usually sufficient if you get there in time. Our in rural area, there are few hydrants. The tanker means that who ever was on scene, needed water quite badly. The ambulance makes me hope that no one was injured. One thing that is present in a lot of rural areas, are butane tanks. Those can really interfere with fire-fighting. They are one exposure that you absolutely have to pay attention too. BLEVEs are not trivial things to deal with.

    Given how hot and humid it was there last night… I’m pretty sure the firefighters on scene were absolutely friken miserable.


    And probably one of the coolest things I’ve had happen to me at a motel (no, not that).

    I pulled in, the shift manager was walking across the parking lot and came in to rent me the room. After the formalities of “smoking/non and kingsized or whatever” he issued me the room…. directly in front of where I had parked.

    Yeah, it’s nothing much, but I was happy with that. Get my stuff inside, eat my takeout sandwich, a quick shower, crank the A/C, and doze off in chilly bliss. (I detest being hot, and yes, I am aware that you Nordic Types probably think that is weird. I just prefer being chilly to sweating my gonads off. It’s not like I can hang them out to dry, I’m not a squirrel.)

    • I like being hot, as long as it’s not when I’m trying to sleep. Something about the hot sun on my skin makes me feel good, but nothing is more gross than sleeping in your own sweat.

      That being said, heat in the “south” is another thing in itself. But at least you aren’t dealing with the frigid depressing winters that us northerners have to deal with.

      One big advantage of living where I do (great lakes region USA) is that I live in one of the least volatile areas in the entire world for natural disasters. Not that I think it’s a huge worry, but it’s nice not having to worry about a potential hurricane, earthquake, tsunami, or volcano destroy all the hard work you’ve put in to your home.

      For whatever it’s worth, I come from Ohio – we’re far enough off the new madrid earthquake zone that it’s not a huge risk, there has presumably never been volcanic activity here, we have no relevant fault lines, and we’re not close enough to a major coastline to experience hurricanes. With that said, I feel we pay for our overall “safety” with our dull and boring winters, which ends up being 95% overcast wet, and cold living.

      • Don’t think you are totally immune. Ever hear of the Mid Continental Rift? Several times the size of the New Madrid Rift, it’s older and much more quiet. An odd feature called the Nemaha ridge runs parallel to the lower end of it… and has been noisy in it’s own right.

        Along that same line of thought, there are at least 14 transform faults that cut across the Gulf of Mexico. I didn’t know they were there until I dug into papers scattered about the Web. They are byproducts of the opening of the Gulf several million years ago, though they are infants compared to the age of the MCR… which runs down through the middle of Lake Superior.

        There are unique geologies all over the place that you can find if you dig long enough. Most are quiet, so quiet that if any of them did anything more that a creak, it would be a Black Swan. Most likely, nothing will ever happen in human time scales… but there is always lurking, a highly remote possibility.

        • How to freak out non-volcanophilic friends: “You know what? That hill over there (well known hill in north London) is the exact same shape as a shield volcano …. 😈

          It probably isn’t a volcano as UK volcanics start a bit further north (but not as far as expected (or at least, as I expected)). 😉

  9. Personally, at least this is my position, I do not want any nuclear power stations around me.
    I would gladly live the “sacrifice” of a much simpler life, with less high watt appliances, in order to have a nuclear-free region around me.

    Still I think there should be much greater investment in much safer and less polluting nuclear energy. The idea of having to cool down nuclear residues for many years, and later having to store them somewhere, is uneasy for me. But that it is just my position.

  10. NATURAL DISASTERS JUST HAPPEN, Nobody teaches volcanoes to erupt,
    tsunamis to devastate, hurricanes to swirl around and no one teaches a man how to choose a wife.
    NATURAL DISASTERS JUST HAPPEN.

  11. BBGN, it is friggen cold , -6 last night and already -2.4 and is isn’t midnight yet, might give the May max a nudge or two and no I am not building a nuke plant in my backyard, that stuff is better in the ground then digging it out, there is so much waste in using electricity it isn’t funny, they are trying to tell us they making not enough money now, because there has been an uptake of solar/wind generation by the public, true.

  12. As Carl sorta mentions, “*^&*hit happens” when Mother Nature becomes part of the risk/benefit equation.
    Regardless if we’re talking about Nuke’s, where and how to to build our cities, or how to feed and care for the some 8 Billion human embryos that made it to full gestation, one of Ma Nature’s tantrums will always be just a moment away (just that we don’t know which “moment” She’s thinking about). If you build something in harm’s way, like a Nuke plant near a tectonically active ocean shoreline, then what else do we expect other than the occassional devasting disaster(s)? It’s not the technology per se, it’s human stupidity/arrogance…and unfortunately, I do not see any improvement in our cumulative “stupidity quotient” coming anytime in the foreseeable future.

    Central to the success of our species will be cheap and reliable power that can be easily, cleanly and safely generated anywhere, especialy in third-world and natural resource limited countires.
    Additionally, as Lurking points out, power storage/ramping up/down is a main obstacle, since supplies can’t just be turned ON/OFF.
    Two of the big drawbacks of renewable energy like Solar and Wind is where does the power come from during nightime or cloudy periods (or no-sun months above the Arctic Circle), or when the wind isn’t blowing? Realistically, giant storage batteries are just not practical, either economically, enviromentally or any other “‘…ally” you can mention. So how do you store extra energy during peak production periods, or transport stored energy that may have been produced out in the open ocean or remote, high altitude deserts?

    I say, burn water. (i.e. Rocket Fuel).
    By storing and transporting potential energy (power) in the form of liquid Oxygen and liquid Hydrogen which is then released exothermically during re-combination (combustion), your basic fuel therefore comes just from water, and the “waste” product during subsequent power production is pure water/water by products–al la water vapor. In addtion, there would be reduced depletion (loss) of the energy since low cost, localized power plants could be built almost anywhere (perhaps even at the neighborhood level) with minimal environmental risks. By using Solar or some other type of renewable energy source to power ICP’s (inductively coupled plasma chambers) the plasma “cracks” simple water into H2 and O2. Then stored in pressure vessels to be used/transported later.
    Since it took energy to crack (break molecular bonds) of the water molecule, this latent energy is then re-released as heat when the H2 and O2 re-combine to re-form water and water by-products. Chemical/electrolysis techniques to crack H2O are currently available, but they are no where near as efficient as what an ICP could be, which is why I think this common-sense approach to making power by “burning” H2 and O2 to form water hasn’t really gathered much momentum (or “steam”), pardon the pun.

    • Here we can use Wind energy quite well. The reason for that is that we are blessed with large arse rivers that we can get hydropower out of. A hydropower plant is the best possible batteri there is. When the wind blows we can shut some of them down, and when it is calm they can go full throtle. Also, the system is fully integrated and automated for loadbalancing. Most countries are not blessed like that.
      I think any solution should be local, but with integrated electricity networks for load balancing, and import/export of excess electricity.

      Hydrogen power is the largest scam ever concocted. It takes 8 kilowatts to produce 1 kilowatt of hydrogen power (natural law here).
      Here is my 10 point list of small scale things that might, or might not, work where people live. There is no order in this list. Use whatever works…
      1. Methane, we shit, shit becomes methane. Methane burns. A recent study shows that 40 percent of all drive-fuel in Sweden could come out from the poop-factories (sewage plants). Cost of conversion is low.
      2. Fossil gas (80 percent is still being burnt off at the oil fields. Fossil gas is equal to the energy comin out of our oil production.
      3. Wind turbines if you have hydropower plants or something else that is a good load balancer. A gas turbine is actually a good load balancer.
      4. Increase voltage in the national grid and in the home grid. A bad electrical system have 83 percent loss from power plant to wall socket. A good system has 49 percent loss. Voltage increases and general upgrade makes one hell of a difference. Remember this for the rest of your life, on average 6,5 kilowatts out 10 produced is lost…
      5. Solar panels. Really good as daytime usage support in warm and sunny places.
      6. Insulation. One might think it is needed only where it is cold. Well, it works equally well where it is hot. Insulating a house halves the cost for cooling the house.
      7. Rock heat/lake heat. Running deep water and heat accumulator works surprisingly well. It saves a bundle in energy and it can used both to WARM & COOL a house…
      8. Upgrade the electrical system in your house. On average you will save 10 percent on your bill or more.
      9. Use your car less. Starting a car and driving it 150 meters takes on average 2 liters of gasoline. On average every person on the planet drives 150 meters or less once a week. That is 16 000 000 000 useless liters of gasoline spent. If you need to drive, drive. I am not against drivint. What irks me is the people who are such lazy asses that they cant walk a couple of houses over to the neighbour.
      10. Hold your power companies accountable. And kick anyone who says hydrogen in the gonads, they are after your money.

      Remember this, half of all fossile fuel is just burned off in a flare, half of all energy is lost between your power outlet and the generator because power companies charge you for it. We do not lack energy, at all.
      There are other small scale thingies we could do to save and produce energy. No solution will work for everyone. Who needs a general solution anyway?

      On Fushion:
      Producing electricity by hydrogen fushion is not a problem. Problem is to produce small amounts of it at a steady pace. If anyone tells you that they know how to do it, kick them in the gonads, they are just out for your money. (Just since I am full of myself I support the ITER project)

      Insulate…

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